Need help in research
Posted on | May 12, 2009 | 18 Comments
I am looking for the precursor statutes to HI statute 338=-one that allows foreign born children of Hawaiian citizens to get Hi birth certificates. I know that those existed in their codes since 1911. I am trying to find one that existed in1961, when Obama was born- exect number and wording. Can anyone find it?
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18 Responses to “Need help in research”
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May 12th, 2009 @ 11:53 am
Here is the statute 338 from Hawaii. I hope this is what you are looking for.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
May 12th, 2009 @ 1:01 pm
Dr. Orly,
I think the Hawaii Ststute you are looking for is 338-17.8 (see below)
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
The web address is
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
May 12th, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
Orly;
This is taken from Sam Sewell’s study of the issue (in his comprehensive and throough article of April 21, 2009: AKA Obama Fans: All together now – OMG!).
(https://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/04/aka-obama-fans-all-together-now-say-omg.html)
Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96* To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii. Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence.
* (page 127 – 129) https://books.google.com/books?id=0PjvG3BkcBAC&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=ACT+96.+AN+ACT+To+Provide+For+The+Issuance+Of+Certificates+Of+Hawaiian+Birth&source=bl&ots=u1k4r9pMnA&sig=K_5dxGCGShV9jNlFmnz1cenke4s&hl=en&ei=PNDrSeiVKp_htgeen9zUBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct
May 12th, 2009 @ 2:10 pm
Possible collections to research, by someone with access to either a Law Library and/or LexisNexis (or similar):
Ref. KFH30 1968 A25 (LRB: Reference) Hawaii revised statutes, 1968. , Honolulu: Published by authority, 1968.
KFH30 1968 H36 os (LRB: Oversize) Hawaii Revised Statutes, as prepared for submission to the Fourth State Legislature of the State of Hawaii. , Honolulu: Feb. 1968.
May 12th, 2009 @ 3:31 pm
Hope this helps. It may have the reference material you are looking for..
https://mijgreb.blogtownhall.com/
The Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii
May 12th, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
The statute that WAS in effect when Obama was born was the one enacted in 1949 which is this one: §338-16.
The Certification number on the COLB Obama posted is 151 1961 – 010641. What I would do is find out how many births there were in Hawaii in 1961.
May 12th, 2009 @ 7:15 pm
The Obama File, https://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm, has an article today (5/12) addressing exactly these statutes, that were around pre-1961.
May 12th, 2009 @ 7:20 pm
Orly, Did you know that someone who has “a shared ancestory” with Obama can gain access to his birth certificate? It’s right in the press statement I believe that Hawaii put out when they said Berg or the other guy, Martin?, could not have access to it. They listed all the people who would qualify to access and someone “with shared ancestory” qualified. I quess that’s to accomadate all those people doing their family history. I tried to find someone with a connection and almost had a guy but he said he was too far removed and did not want to ask for it even though he agreed it should be released. Maybe a Kenyan relative will request it? Someone on his American grandfather’s side?
May 12th, 2009 @ 11:00 pm
I already took care off that You will see soon
May 13th, 2009 @ 5:09 am
Prima facie evidence overcome by competent evidence of nonidentification. 4 U.S.D.C. Haw. 258.
I have been trying to find out if Stanley Ann Dunham was even a legal “resident” of hawaii
for one year prior to barack’s birth. She did not start college until late sept or nov. 1960.
College resident laws required “one year” without
leaving the territory. Marriage nullifies it.?
Read or Glance at many of the Laws on Hawaii Statutes:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol12_Ch0501-0588/HRS0578/HRS_0578-.htm
or complete list of laws
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov
§338-5 Compulsory registration of births. Within the time prescribed by the department of health, a certificate of every birth shall be substantially completed and filed with the local agent of the department in the district in which the birth occurred, by the administrator or designated representative of the birthing facility, or physician, or midwife, or other legally authorized person in attendance at the birth; or if not so attended, by one of the parents.
The birth facility shall make available to the department appropriate medical records for the purpose of monitoring compliance with the provisions of this chapter. [L 1949, c 327, §9; RL 1955, §57-8; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-5; am L 1988, c 149, §1]
Case Notes
Compulsory reporting not objectionable. 466 F. Supp. 714.
§338-6 Local agent to prepare birth certificate. (a) If neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as provided in section 338-5 is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local agent of the department of health shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.
(b) The department shall prescribe the time within which a supplementary report furnishing information omitted on the original certificate may be returned for the purpose of completing the certificate. Certificates of birth completed by a supplementary report shall not be considered as “delayed” or “altered.” [L 1949, c 327, §10; RL 1955, §57-9; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-6]
§338-15 Late or altered certificates. A person born in the State may file or amend a certificate after the time prescribed, upon submitting proof as required by rules adopted by the department of health. Certificates registered after the time prescribed for filing by the rules of the department of health shall be registered subject to any evidentiary requirements that the department adopts by rule to substantiate the alleged facts of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §19; RL 1955, §57-18; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-15; am L 1972, c 66, §1(1); am L 1997, c 305, §2]
Attorney General Opinions
Section provides for the alteration of only birth certificates. Att. Gen. Op. 84-14.
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]
§338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons. (a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:
(1) A properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department; and
(2) A copy of any investigatory report and recommendation which may have been prepared by the director of social services; and
(3) A report on a form to be approved by the department of health setting forth the following:
(A) Date of assumption of custody;
(B) Sex;
(C) Color or race;
(D) Approximate age of child;
(E) Name and address of the person or persons adopting said child;
(F) Name given to child by adoptive parent or parents;
(G) True or probable country of birth.
The true or probable country of birth shall be known as the place of birth, and the date of birth shall be determined by approximation. This report shall constitute an original certificate of birth; and
(4) A request that a new certificate of birth be established.
(b) After preparation of the new certificate of birth in the new name of the adopted person, the department of health shall seal and file the certified copy of the adoptive decree, the investigatory report and recommendation of the director of human services if any, the report constituting the original certificate of birth, and the request for a new certificate of birth. The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents. [L 1979, c 203, §3; am L 1990, c 338, §3]
§338-41 Issuance; procedure. (a) The department of health may make regulations respecting the form of Hawaiian birth certificates and certified copies of such certificates and other matters relating to Hawaii birth certificates as appear necessary and the regulations, when approved and made in accordance with chapter 91, shall have the force of law. The department shall furnish the form of the certificates and copies made therefrom.
(b) Any certificate of Hawaiian birth issued heretofore under or by virtue of any law of the Territory of Hawaii or the State, shall be prima facie evidence of the facts therein stated. [L 1911, c 96, §1; am L 1923, c 246, §1; RL 1925, §196; am L 1927, c 202, §1; RL 1935, §7610; RL 1945, §12910; am L 1951, c 132, §1; RL 1955, §57-40; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §9; am L 1965, c 96, §39; HRS §338-41; am L 1970, c 11, §1; am L 1972, c 66, §1(4)]
Case Notes
Prima facie evidence overcome by competent evidence of nonidentification. 4 U.S.D.C. Haw. 258.
Certificate not controlling upon U.S. immigration officials re admission of Chinese. 217 F. 48; 35 Op. U.S. Att. Gen. 69.
(Some of these statutes should be included in the Lawsuit’s to show how simple it was to get a Hawaii BC) Dan
May 13th, 2009 @ 6:05 pm
To: Linda Jordan
I agree with you. A search of Obama’s geneology might be a way around all the legal hurdles that are in the way. As you may have realized, the references to Barack Hussein Obama have been scrubbed. I would be willing to pursue this approach with you.
In addition to a someone with a common ancestor with Obama, there is another requirement that the request must be made by a geneologist from an accredited geneological society.
May 13th, 2009 @ 6:10 pm
To Linda Jordan
There is also a possibility that Obama’s birth certificate was “sealed” when he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. It would take a court order to get access to the birth records.
May 13th, 2009 @ 7:01 pm
This is from Casey, webmaster in Hawaii. Maybe this will help. The attachment opened but just had a seal.
1 attachment
image001.jpg (4.9 KB)
Aloha,
I was able to receive your email below and in regards to your question I can only provide to you a link to the 2008 Hawaii Revised Statutes.
Here you may follow the instructions on how to input and search for certain words in the HRS data base, such as birth certificates.
Link: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/hrs/default.asp
Since your question may be related to statutes dating back to 1961, you may have to contact the Legislature Reference Bureau at lrb@capitol.hawaii.gov for further assistance on your question.
LRB Website: https://hawaii.gov/lrb/
May 14th, 2009 @ 4:20 am
Whether or not a statute existed prior in 1961 in order to show that he obtained a COLB is actually irrelevant. Here is the statute:
Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that…
Now it is a compound sentence. If broken down into its logical parts, it reads:
Upon application of an adult, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult.
There is no time limit in the statute. It does not say how old the adult must be or that it applies to adults born after a certain year. Therefore, anytime after 1982 ( when the current statute was written ), he could have gone into the DOH and applied for one for himself as long as he could show his mother me the residency requirements.
May 14th, 2009 @ 11:15 am
Can a geneological research company in the United Kingdom or Kenya (or one of Kenya’s neighbors) possibly find the information that can expose “Obama”?
May 15th, 2009 @ 6:47 pm
I like Ron’s idea a lot. After all, Soetoro’s natural father was technically a British subject in Kenya when Soetoro was born. Therefore, the British government likely should have records of children born to British subjects, even if they are in a British colony like Kenya. I understand that Kenyan government has declared Barry’s records as “top secret”. Perhaps someone in the UK could run this down. The smoking gun could be in Britain.
May 16th, 2009 @ 6:32 am
David
that is why the Ambassadors of Great Britain and Kenya are addittional defendants in the law suit, that you just hand delivered to SCOTUS