Need help in research
Posted on | May 12, 2009 | 18 Comments
I am looking for the precursor statutes to HI statute 338=-one that allows foreign born children of Hawaiian citizens to get Hi birth certificates. I know that those existed in their codes since 1911. I am trying to find one that existed in1961, when Obama was born- exect number and wording. Can anyone find it?
Category: Help Needed
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18 Responses to “Need help in research”
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May 12th, 2009 @ 11:53 am
Here is the statute 338 from Hawaii. I hope this is what you are looking for.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
May 12th, 2009 @ 1:01 pm
Dr. Orly,
I think the Hawaii Ststute you are looking for is 338-17.8 (see below)
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
The web address is
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
May 12th, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
Orly;
This is taken from Sam Sewell’s study of the issue (in his comprehensive and throough article of April 21, 2009: AKA Obama Fans: All together now – OMG!).
(https://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/04/aka-obama-fans-all-together-now-say-omg.html)
Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96* To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii. Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence.
* (page 127 – 129) https://books.google.com/books?id=0PjvG3BkcBAC&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=ACT+96.+AN+ACT+To+Provide+For+The+Issuance+Of+Certificates+Of+Hawaiian+Birth&source=bl&ots=u1k4r9pMnA&sig=K_5dxGCGShV9jNlFmnz1cenke4s&hl=en&ei=PNDrSeiVKp_htgeen9zUBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct
May 12th, 2009 @ 2:10 pm
Possible collections to research, by someone with access to either a Law Library and/or LexisNexis (or similar):
Ref. KFH30 1968 A25 (LRB: Reference) Hawaii revised statutes, 1968. , Honolulu: Published by authority, 1968.
KFH30 1968 H36 os (LRB: Oversize) Hawaii Revised Statutes, as prepared for submission to the Fourth State Legislature of the State of Hawaii. , Honolulu: Feb. 1968.
May 12th, 2009 @ 3:31 pm
Hope this helps. It may have the reference material you are looking for..
https://mijgreb.blogtownhall.com/
The Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii
May 12th, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
The statute that WAS in effect when Obama was born was the one enacted in 1949 which is this one: §338-16.
The Certification number on the COLB Obama posted is 151 1961 – 010641. What I would do is find out how many births there were in Hawaii in 1961.
May 12th, 2009 @ 6:23 pm
In Hawaii in 1961, there were three different birth certificates
by DefendUSx May 12, 2009 14:32
Generally, folks don’t know that Hawaii law, even in 1961, provided for multiple kinds of birth records, most of which are not what people think of when they think of birth certificates. The following is a description of those, including certificates for people not born in Hawaii. Go figure!
1. In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were three different birth certificates that were obtainable: a. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961). b. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or mid wife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, an adult could, upon testimony, file a “Delayed Certificate”, which required endorsement on the Delayed Certificate of a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing, which evidence must be kept in a special permanent file. The statute provided that the probative value of the Delayed Certificate must be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. (See Section 57-18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961). c. If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
2. In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory or State of Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth certificate for a person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.
3. The language of the statute clearly applies to births in the days of the Territory of Hawaii, so also births in 1961.
4. A press release concerning numerous questions raised across the country as to whether or not Obama was a natural born citizen was issued on October 31, 2008 by the Hawaii Department of Health by its Director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino.
5. In that very carefully worded press release, Dr. Fukino said that she had “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”
6. The intentional ambiguity of that statement raises more questions that it answered.
7. That statement failed to resolve any of the questions being raised by litigation across the country over the issue of Obama’s birth and qualifications for the office of the President of the United States, including: a. The specific type of certificate was not identified. Could it be the certificate for someone born outside of the State of Hawaii? b. Being “on record” could mean either that its contents are in the computer database of the department or an actual “vault” original. If the latter, those are the words used to describe what is there. The data base record could have been entered based on a birth record for someone born outside of Hawaii. c. Therefore, the value as prima facie evidence is limited and easily overcome if any of the allegations of substantial evidence of birth outside Hawaii can be obtained and verified with a Court Order.
8. It should also be noted that in the face of all this litigation, the simple presentation of Obama’s vault birth records would put the questions to rest.
9. Obama has not taken this approach to a single one of the cases, but instead has hired legal counsel across the country at no small expense to defend the claims with motions to dismiss on standing and similar procedural grounds.
10. Such response to the request for proof that he is qualified to serve as President of the United States of America only serves to raise more questions about this election.
May 12th, 2009 @ 7:15 pm
The Obama File, https://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm, has an article today (5/12) addressing exactly these statutes, that were around pre-1961.
May 12th, 2009 @ 7:20 pm
Orly, Did you know that someone who has “a shared ancestory” with Obama can gain access to his birth certificate? It’s right in the press statement I believe that Hawaii put out when they said Berg or the other guy, Martin?, could not have access to it. They listed all the people who would qualify to access and someone “with shared ancestory” qualified. I quess that’s to accomadate all those people doing their family history. I tried to find someone with a connection and almost had a guy but he said he was too far removed and did not want to ask for it even though he agreed it should be released. Maybe a Kenyan relative will request it? Someone on his American grandfather’s side?
May 12th, 2009 @ 11:00 pm
I already took care off that You will see soon
May 13th, 2009 @ 5:09 am
Prima facie evidence overcome by competent evidence of nonidentification. 4 U.S.D.C. Haw. 258.
I have been trying to find out if Stanley Ann Dunham was even a legal “resident” of hawaii
for one year prior to barack’s birth. She did not start college until late sept or nov. 1960.
College resident laws required “one year” without
leaving the territory. Marriage nullifies it.?
Read or Glance at many of the Laws on Hawaii Statutes:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol12_Ch0501-0588/HRS0578/HRS_0578-.htm
or complete list of laws
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov
§338-5 Compulsory registration of births. Within the time prescribed by the department of health, a certificate of every birth shall be substantially completed and filed with the local agent of the department in the district in which the birth occurred, by the administrator or designated representative of the birthing facility, or physician, or midwife, or other legally authorized person in attendance at the birth; or if not so attended, by one of the parents.
The birth facility shall make available to the department appropriate medical records for the purpose of monitoring compliance with the provisions of this chapter. [L 1949, c 327, §9; RL 1955, §57-8; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-5; am L 1988, c 149, §1]
Case Notes
Compulsory reporting not objectionable. 466 F. Supp. 714.
§338-6 Local agent to prepare birth certificate. (a) If neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as provided in section 338-5 is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local agent of the department of health shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.
(b) The department shall prescribe the time within which a supplementary report furnishing information omitted on the original certificate may be returned for the purpose of completing the certificate. Certificates of birth completed by a supplementary report shall not be considered as “delayed” or “altered.” [L 1949, c 327, §10; RL 1955, §57-9; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-6]
§338-15 Late or altered certificates. A person born in the State may file or amend a certificate after the time prescribed, upon submitting proof as required by rules adopted by the department of health. Certificates registered after the time prescribed for filing by the rules of the department of health shall be registered subject to any evidentiary requirements that the department adopts by rule to substantiate the alleged facts of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §19; RL 1955, §57-18; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-15; am L 1972, c 66, §1(1); am L 1997, c 305, §2]
Attorney General Opinions
Section provides for the alteration of only birth certificates. Att. Gen. Op. 84-14.
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]
§338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons. (a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:
(1) A properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department; and
(2) A copy of any investigatory report and recommendation which may have been prepared by the director of social services; and
(3) A report on a form to be approved by the department of health setting forth the following:
(A) Date of assumption of custody;
(B) Sex;
(C) Color or race;
(D) Approximate age of child;
(E) Name and address of the person or persons adopting said child;
(F) Name given to child by adoptive parent or parents;
(G) True or probable country of birth.
The true or probable country of birth shall be known as the place of birth, and the date of birth shall be determined by approximation. This report shall constitute an original certificate of birth; and
(4) A request that a new certificate of birth be established.
(b) After preparation of the new certificate of birth in the new name of the adopted person, the department of health shall seal and file the certified copy of the adoptive decree, the investigatory report and recommendation of the director of human services if any, the report constituting the original certificate of birth, and the request for a new certificate of birth. The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents. [L 1979, c 203, §3; am L 1990, c 338, §3]
§338-41 Issuance; procedure. (a) The department of health may make regulations respecting the form of Hawaiian birth certificates and certified copies of such certificates and other matters relating to Hawaii birth certificates as appear necessary and the regulations, when approved and made in accordance with chapter 91, shall have the force of law. The department shall furnish the form of the certificates and copies made therefrom.
(b) Any certificate of Hawaiian birth issued heretofore under or by virtue of any law of the Territory of Hawaii or the State, shall be prima facie evidence of the facts therein stated. [L 1911, c 96, §1; am L 1923, c 246, §1; RL 1925, §196; am L 1927, c 202, §1; RL 1935, §7610; RL 1945, §12910; am L 1951, c 132, §1; RL 1955, §57-40; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §9; am L 1965, c 96, §39; HRS §338-41; am L 1970, c 11, §1; am L 1972, c 66, §1(4)]
Case Notes
Prima facie evidence overcome by competent evidence of nonidentification. 4 U.S.D.C. Haw. 258.
Certificate not controlling upon U.S. immigration officials re admission of Chinese. 217 F. 48; 35 Op. U.S. Att. Gen. 69.
(Some of these statutes should be included in the Lawsuit’s to show how simple it was to get a Hawaii BC) Dan
May 13th, 2009 @ 6:05 pm
To: Linda Jordan
I agree with you. A search of Obama’s geneology might be a way around all the legal hurdles that are in the way. As you may have realized, the references to Barack Hussein Obama have been scrubbed. I would be willing to pursue this approach with you.
In addition to a someone with a common ancestor with Obama, there is another requirement that the request must be made by a geneologist from an accredited geneological society.
May 13th, 2009 @ 6:10 pm
To Linda Jordan
There is also a possibility that Obama’s birth certificate was “sealed” when he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. It would take a court order to get access to the birth records.
May 13th, 2009 @ 7:01 pm
This is from Casey, webmaster in Hawaii. Maybe this will help. The attachment opened but just had a seal.
1 attachment
image001.jpg (4.9 KB)
Aloha,
I was able to receive your email below and in regards to your question I can only provide to you a link to the 2008 Hawaii Revised Statutes.
Here you may follow the instructions on how to input and search for certain words in the HRS data base, such as birth certificates.
Link: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/hrs/default.asp
Since your question may be related to statutes dating back to 1961, you may have to contact the Legislature Reference Bureau at lrb@capitol.hawaii.gov for further assistance on your question.
LRB Website: https://hawaii.gov/lrb/
May 14th, 2009 @ 4:20 am
Whether or not a statute existed prior in 1961 in order to show that he obtained a COLB is actually irrelevant. Here is the statute:
Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that…
Now it is a compound sentence. If broken down into its logical parts, it reads:
Upon application of an adult, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult.
There is no time limit in the statute. It does not say how old the adult must be or that it applies to adults born after a certain year. Therefore, anytime after 1982 ( when the current statute was written ), he could have gone into the DOH and applied for one for himself as long as he could show his mother me the residency requirements.
May 14th, 2009 @ 11:15 am
Can a geneological research company in the United Kingdom or Kenya (or one of Kenya’s neighbors) possibly find the information that can expose “Obama”?
May 15th, 2009 @ 6:47 pm
I like Ron’s idea a lot. After all, Soetoro’s natural father was technically a British subject in Kenya when Soetoro was born. Therefore, the British government likely should have records of children born to British subjects, even if they are in a British colony like Kenya. I understand that Kenyan government has declared Barry’s records as “top secret”. Perhaps someone in the UK could run this down. The smoking gun could be in Britain.
May 16th, 2009 @ 6:32 am
David
that is why the Ambassadors of Great Britain and Kenya are addittional defendants in the law suit, that you just hand delivered to SCOTUS