While I believe that Paul Ryan needs to be removed from speakership, the Freedom Caucus, Paul, Cotton and Lee share the blame, as people want no preexisting conditions limitation and conservatives this time are not listening to the people and did not provide solutions
Posted on | March 25, 2017 | 32 Comments
comment from reader:
| Rod Riddle | Ryan failed because Obamacare Lite is not repealing the disastrous Bill. Let the real Conservatives handle the task and it will get done. Ryan is being paid by George Soros to keep Obamacare from being repealed. Thats why he put forth his lame Bill which wasn’t a repeal. |
Answer from Orly:
Freedom Caucus shares part of the blame, too.
The problem is that what the Freedom Caucus suggested, was not acceptable to the majority of GOP. Freedom Caucus is a very small group, less than 20% of Republicans in the House, that cannot pass any bill themselves and they are not willing to work with 80% of Republicans and they might be the cause of GOP losing seats in 2018.
Most people want to keep the provision that says that people cannot be denied insurance coverage because of preexisting conditions. In order to have this provision, insurance companies need some compensation, as typically it it expensive to cover those people, they are sick, might have cancer and other serious diseases which require hundred of thousands of dollars worth of treatment.
Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Tom Cotton in the Senate and the Freedom Caucus in the House are not listening to the majority of the people of this nation. They listen only to themselves. While I support them in many other areas, here Steve Bannon and Freedom Caucus did not listen to American people, who want to abolish the preexisting condition and there is a cost to this. They, also, did not provide any legitimate plan that would be acceptable to insurance companies. They act as an opposition party instead of a governing party. Being a part of the House or Senate means being able to work with others and they did not demonstrate that.
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32 Responses to “While I believe that Paul Ryan needs to be removed from speakership, the Freedom Caucus, Paul, Cotton and Lee share the blame, as people want no preexisting conditions limitation and conservatives this time are not listening to the people and did not provide solutions”
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March 25th, 2017 @ 9:15 pm
Dear Orly, from you I didn’t expect such demagoguery.
1) The minority of the so called “repooblicans” is right: first we must get back to the point A when we were before any Obamacare, period. America did somehow exist also before that. Moreover, Feds have no enumerated constitutional right to deal with the medical issues anyway, period. PERIOD! NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!!! Should we even continue after this point?!
2) Nobody must work with 80% reooooblicans, because all 100% repoooblicans must be dismissed as a criminal party (along with other existing so called “parties”).
3) The so called “Most people which want to keep something” that is not theirs, that nobody owes to them, and is unsustainable at this stage anyway (especially under 20 T debt and other debts) may go elsewhere to any socialist paradise still existing in this world.
4) We are a fallen nation, with entirely criminal Congress, Supreme Court, and all parties! Stop already this party demagogy as though we must work with all that criminal mess! We must destroy this criminal mess!
March 25th, 2017 @ 10:08 pm
Orly:
“Most people want to keep the provision that says that people cannot be denied insurance coverage because of preexisting conditions.”
This is the language of ObamarCare. What about the people who has not purchased health insurance and do not want to?
(for the needs of people who has purchased health insurance) “In order to have this provision (insurance plans to allow pre-existing conditions), insurance companies need some compensation, as typically it it expensive to cover those people, they are sick, might have cancer and other serious diseases which require hundred of thousands of dollars worth of treatment.”
Your suggestion seems to mean that the Government that is tax payers have to compensate insurance companies for this expense (hundred thousands of dollars of unforeseeable individual health problem expense for multitude of individuals) to be covered by insurance companies!!?? Cancer is quite common in this country. This is Government Health Care. No Government can take up this burden of financial obligations. This is a myth.
I do not see that there is an economic basis for the Government to take this on. This is Socialism. The resources of the Government are limited. Orly, you are talking a myth.
This is not free market for health care. It is not possible to offer this to the public. This not executable economically in my opinion.
It can be done through printing money and eventual inflation and destruction of the dollar. But we are already close to that due to 20 trillion of Obama and previous Administrations debt. However, there are also unfunded debt obligations due to social security and other Government services. Their amount is 101 trillion.
“Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Tom Cotton in the Senate and the Freedom Caucus in the House are not listening to the majority of the people of this nation.”
I do not think this is the problem. The problem is that people like Rand Paul do not talk about free Market health care. They talk about insurance plans. You have pointed out that these insurance plans have to allow preexisting conditions. Then Government has to pick the huge extra costs. This is not feasible economically and will destroy the dollar. Why is this idea floating??!!
Because Democrats have promised Government managed health where the Government can pay all financial excesses. This is Socialism This is not Free Market. There is no economic basis for this.
“They listen only to themselves. While I support them in many other areas, here Steve Bannon and Freedom Caucus did not listen to American people, who want to abolish the preexisting condition and there is a cost to this.”
You seem to think that the majority of American voters have accepted Government managed health care in the form of insurance companies managing health care by having people to by insurance plans. This is Socialism. How do you know that this is what American voters want?
The Democrats want that to large extent, but may be not all. On what basis can you speak for the public on this? This looks to me like nonsense economically. There is no free lunch. The air is free.
[They, also, did not provide any legitimate plan that would be acceptable to insurance companies. ]
Insurance health care plans if mandated by Congress is a huge Socialized Health Care bill that is very similar to ObamaCare. It will be just as complex as is ObamaCare. There is no fundamental differences between these two ideas.
If Conservatives want Socialism, they are no different from Democrats. Is USA to become a huge concentration camp, where everybody has to buy insurance plan? If individuals want to do this, they can. There is no need for Government to step into this. But the US Government has nothing to do with this.
There need not be a US law obligating US Government to reimburse insurance companies for providing health insurance plans. I do not think there is money for that in USA.
Canada has provided Government health care. Not many people happy. They travel to US for cancer treatments.
The difference between dems and conservatives is Free market verses Socialism. Is Socialism acceptable to you, Orly?
(Conservative Congressmen) “They act as an opposition party instead of a governing party.”
This is not the problem. The problem may be that they want Socialism like you do and not Free Market. If that is so, conservatives would not be able to offer anything different from Obama Care fundamentally.
This is why Paul ryan bill has failed. Paul Ryan is not able to formulate free market based health care. But he can talk about insurance plans like you do. What comes is very similar to Obama care. It is not an accident. Rand Paul will have similar difficulty. I do not know about. Senator Mike Lee. There is House member who is a Professor of Economics. I think his name is repr. Brad from the same State Kantor was representing. Brad has displaced Kantor in the House. If Brad knows Austrian economics, he will be able to formulate Free Market Health care plan. But this may be not what you want.
“Being a part of the House or Senate means being able to work with others and they did not demonstrate that.”
Being able to work with others and negotiate is certainly important. But in this case, it is also important to understand free market economics. President Trump has Supply Siders economists as advisors. They should be able to help formulate free market health care bill. I do not think it would be able to promise payments for complex treatments to the public. That is not free market. That is democrat’s promise.
March 26th, 2017 @ 1:19 am
Alex, what you suggest is a road nowhere but paved with good intentions. You can as well find yourself a new globe and start from scratch. Democracy cannot survive career politicians with unlimited terms whose only goal is to be re-elected. This can only be achieved by giving away the goodies and they can only be defeated not by those who take the goodies away but by those who give away more goodies. The state of the welfare is one of the major factors that drives the immigration, changes countries’ demography, and promotes the politicians to stay in power. This is why Moses destroyed the Golden Calf along with the people who made it and worshiped it and this is why the Gold of Rhine destroys civilizations.
Trump wrote The Art of the Deal for businessmen, now he needs to write Part II, for the politicians. I hope he succeeds.
March 26th, 2017 @ 4:05 am
Agreed that we will no longer tolerate the Eric Cantors, John Boehners and Paul Ryans. This is draining the swamp. Many seats will go to those who stand strong like the freedom caucus. Do we really think that We the People after voting for Trump will elect a democrat majority? Democrats will lose another 1000 seats everywhere. The people are now purging this party like a virus, republicans as well
March 26th, 2017 @ 6:11 am
I agree that any health bill should not contain any non-market based funding however we cannot blame The GOP for not passing a bill that resembles in anyway Obamacare. That is more of the democratic politics to blame The GOP for what the democrats are doing and that is how we got Obamacare in the first place.
March 26th, 2017 @ 7:05 am
I agree with Alexander Gofen. The problem with health care is that is has been taken over by the government just as in socialist countries. Health care originally meant the relationship between doctor and patient. The doctor or hospital rendered service and the patient paid accordingly. If he or she couldn’t afford the service, family, friends or non governmental charities would provide the funds. Health care was not a constitutional right to be provided by the taxpayers. Under the system today the productive members of society are forced to pay more for the unproductive whether it be food, lodging or health care.The result is a massive and increasing government debt that will result in dire consequences.
March 26th, 2017 @ 8:40 am
IMO, we do need a change from Ryan. No HOPE.
Please let us get Dr. Ben Carson, Dr. Betsy
McCaughey, and Dr. Sanjay Gupta rewrite this
mess for the USA. If Canada can do this, then
so can America. We must reform, but no deep
despair. Have faith and trust, Alex. Even
Orly could help write and reform certain
sections of the PLAN. There is hope still.
Remind em, Danno!!!
March 26th, 2017 @ 10:03 am
Baruch, in your own words (in Torah words), Trump failed to do what Moses did (destroying the Golden Calf and people who made it). Trump could (and still can, though ridiculously late) to do what Moses did: to fully expose all aspects of the 2008-2016 usurpation, thus creating the tsunami which would clean all this mess. And that would be righteous, and would bring repentance (at least the late). This all was in the open letter to him https://judeochristianamerica.org/OpenLetter/ToTrump2017.htm
All in vain… So far…
March 26th, 2017 @ 10:56 am
Alex, how many Moseses there were in 5000+ years? And even Moses did not know how to proceed, he was constantly taught and prompted by God. Unfortunately, Trump does not have such a backing. But who knows – may be, he does, and if he does, we shall see this soon. Almighty’s ways are known not.
But one of the main achievements of Obama was caught in this discussion – with Obamacare, they brought the radical change of America half way to the socialism. To undo this, the government has to take away the goodies. Is this possible on this globe?
March 26th, 2017 @ 11:06 am
Trump “Endorses” Jeanine Pirro’s Call For Paul Ryan To Step Down
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-26/trump-endorses-fox-news-host-call-paul-ryan-resign
March 26th, 2017 @ 11:12 am
“Much Worse Than Watergate”, Former CIA Officer Admits Trump ‘Wiretapping’ Likely True
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-26/much-worse-then-watergate-former-cia-officer-admits-trump-wiretapping-likely-true
March 26th, 2017 @ 5:14 pm
Baruch, I hear what you say, and you pinpointed the most crucial difficulty:
– the government has to take away the goodies after creating an illusion of entitlements!
And to take away not only the unearned medical insurance, but everything unearned such as welfare, and a lot of other things. However the seeming “impossibility” to terminate the illusion of entitlements is not a justification of doing nothing, because it will end badly anyway!
1) There were examples in history when not only undeserved, but also deserved entitlements were terminated: by revolutions, huge crises, wars. So far the number of recipients of entitlements are still a bit lower than the number of hard earners. It’s still possible to screw the recipients (until it is not vice versa).
2) Trump still has a unique unprecedented opportunity to expose the usurpation and to create a blessed tsunami, which would help to screw the recipients among other things.
3) And again, this financial debauchery are deemed to end very soon anyway. The debt is already astronomical…
March 27th, 2017 @ 7:58 am
We need to go back to pre-obamacare days. Get the government & insurance companies being supported by the gloablists, dems & rinos out of our healthcare. Keep Medicare & Medicaid, cutting all the waste, fraud & abuse from each program. If anyone can do that, President Trump can. Consider Direct Care formations in every state: https://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2017/02/06/lawmakers-take-interest-in-insurance-free-approach.html
March 27th, 2017 @ 8:20 am
clearly Trump cannot repeal O-care alone, he needs 216 members of the House and he has currently only 206
March 27th, 2017 @ 8:28 am
The U.S. House of Representatives has the constitutional duty to originate bills which raise revenue
The Supreme Court GAVE the HOUSE their strategy to repeal Obamacare
The Supreme Court called Obamacare a tax. A ‘tax’ according to our Constitution must come from the House. The Origination Clause in our Constitution states: “All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills. /20ID
Article 1, Section 7. Clause I
“The Obama Administration’s health care law did not originate in the House; it originated in the Senate, when Senator Harry Reid “amended” a bill the House had passed by striking out all of its text and replacing it with the Senate-written bill that eventually became Obamacare.”
The ‘birth certificate’ for Obamacare cannot lie in the Senate and be legal. It is on the record that the House bill was gutted by Harry Reid and the Senate, thus breaching our Constitution and making it null and void according to our Constitution. The Defunding plan didn’t work. The delaying plan also didn’t work. Negotiations aren’t happening. How about standing on the Constitution and creating a bill repealing Obamacare based on its lack of legality due it being a tax bill? There is the strategy to destroy Obamacare. Now, do they have the guts to follow the ball and get it done?
March 27th, 2017 @ 11:49 am
Repeal Obamacare. THEN fix the few things that are wrong. The freedom caucus has guts. They are simply trying to be loyal to their constituency and conservatism. I believe Louis Gohmert is one of them. If they are like him, they are doing the right things. Besides, Trump will eventually get a few Democrats and the freedom caucus will be back to having no say. Once democrats end up with the power again, the freedom caucus will look pretty good. The art of a bad deal is no deal, in my opinion.
March 27th, 2017 @ 12:16 pm
Don’t you get it? 80% of Republicans in congress do not want to just repeal O-care, they want to do repeal and replace at the same time. Freedom Caucus needs to work with 80%
March 27th, 2017 @ 12:31 pm
I get it. Repeal comes before replace. Freedom caucus is not the blame.
March 27th, 2017 @ 12:40 pm
Freedom Caucus is a small minority. They, themselves, cannot pass anything. If they do ot work with others, GOP might lose seats in 2018
March 27th, 2017 @ 1:08 pm
So lockstep like democrats. I am for passing the repeal and replace with minor changes in the future. I honestly think they should have signed on for it. However, they made promises to their constituents. Does that not mean something? Big government is bad whether it comes from Dems or Repubs. By the way they HAVE worked with them, they just didn’t vote with them. Yes, Repubs are the best hope for the future, but when they act like liberal democrats, they are simply RINOS. I believe your beef is that they didn’t support Trump. He is supposed to be the great deal maker, I am sure he has something up his sleeve. When the next bill gets passed, it will likely have 20 dems onboard, and he will quash the freedom caucus and get us leaning toward that big government most conservatives want to avoid. Obamacare is dying on its own. Trump simply does not want to be blamed for doing nothing. I agree, but pushing through more big and overregualed government program stuff is NOT the answer. Instead of blaming the freedom caucus, why not look at the few things they insisted on. I bet the number of give-always was much greater to the freedom caucus than it was to the moderates. Obamacare should be repealed. PERIOD! THEN, take care of those with preexisting conditions, raise the age to 26 for families, no state line boundaries, and an uninsured medical fund to help those who do not have insurance. This can be paid for through tax deductible contributions VOLUNTARILY BY anyone willing to give money. Someone goes to the emergency room, they get that service free (paid for by that fund). Before they leave, they have the FREEDOM TO SIGN UP FOR COVERAGE. If they do not, note that they did not want coverage, and all future medical expenses are on them. Yes, I am sure this will seem heartless when they can’t pay, so give them the same option every year. Hospitals and insurance companies should not have to foot the bill for those who VOLUNTARILY decided they did not want coverage. If they do not sign up, check the block that reads they refused insurance coverage from one of the 500 existing options (if it is done right) and free enterprise reigns. Just my opinion. Have to do some errands. I am sure someone will comment, but I am not trying to be contentious; just want people to accept personal responsibility…including Congress and yes even the freedom caucus. Have a nice day!
March 27th, 2017 @ 2:12 pm
Wow! Bitch, bitch, bitch!
Why does A.G. have to include a fallen nation!
(NO…it’s a fallen Congress!)
And most Americans just don’t see the shadow govt of the nwo, controlling things!
And the other Alex, if your post were any longer, we’d have to name it a dissertation!
Trump’s going through a lot of B.S., due to various factions. This guy needs cooperation!
Not psycho-B.S.!
And Orly has a righteous post!
March 27th, 2017 @ 4:29 pm
There are so many great thoughts on here,
and bottom line, Dan H. ‘repeal
Obama Care’ and then work like
heck to ‘replace’ it with
the best of all ideas that
can be brainstormed by smart
people, i.e. Ben Carson.
Secondly, Alex G. is right.
Obama and his treasonous
self should be reckoned with
and should have been by now.
Especially after the 10 experts
found all that we knew for 8 years,
to be valid; and more especially
after Malik Obama revealed the
Kenyan birth certificate as
authentic.
That should have brought forth
immediate sentencing; don’t even
need a trial.
If President Trump wants to get
anywhere with Americans, not the
subversives that I read on THE HILL,
ugh..
then he should be acting in that
capacity of eliminating the corruption
of judges/congress, and Obama’s
minions.
March 27th, 2017 @ 4:32 pm
If most republicans are to be replaced so be it but it won’t be the freedom caucus the new party will be mostly freedom caucus they are the only ones listening to us
March 27th, 2017 @ 4:40 pm
To Orly: Damn NO! Freedom Caucus MUST NOT need to work with 80% repooblicans because 80% repooblicans (actually all 100%) MUST lose, be prosecuted and dismissed as a criminal party.
To Congress has Patriotism Problems: Congress is fallen indeed, but also the entire nation is fallen, each and every its institution as listed in the end here: https://judeochristianamerica.org/OpenLetter/UFOInWhiteHouse.htm
March 27th, 2017 @ 7:29 pm
Virginia W.: “We need to go back to pre-obamacare days. Get the government & insurance companies being supported by the gloablists, dems & rinos out of our healthcare.” I agree. In addition your link to a story about Atlas.MD association of health services providers is also helpful. Atlas.MD association of health services providers offers health services directly insurance free to their clients. This has helped a number of companies and individual to access health services, while they could not afford ObamaCare insurance plans. Many thanks for pointing this out, Virginia. This is a good example of free market creating an association of health services providers offering affordable services with no insurance middlemen.
Something similar happens with alternative medicine providers such as oriental medicine health services professionals, massagists, naturopaths, chiropractors, and others. A variety of them are often located in one building and offer directly insurance free health services capable of solving many chronic and acute health conditions in an inexpensive manner.
If a family or an individual keeps daily certain health routines they normally detect early what health services they need and go to get them at a suitable alternative health group of providers.
Dan H. : “Repeal ObamaCare, Then Fix the few things are wrong,,,” This is helpful. I think Paul Ryan was not (and is not) interested in progress towards eliminating ObamaCare and repairing the damage it has caused. And Ryan is possibly more dangerous than that.
If one looks at Virginia M. post one might think that that Repeal is alone is enough. There is one caveat. This is a necessity to help people who have already purchased insurance plans within ObamaCare system.
I think the Repeal ObamaCare bill has to include 1. Explanation that free market approach will reduce health Care costs. 2. The Government cannot pay for pre-existing conditions. But free market health services including ones based on private insurance plans may do that to some extent, Nothing more can be expected. If unrestricted pre-existing conditions promised by the Government, this would just fool the public and if accepted would cause collapse of the dollar. 3. Government mandated and regulated insurance plans increase health Care costs and decrease access to health Care services and have to be eliminated. 4. Personal Health Savings accounts with tax savings provisions will help save costs on health services. 5. Existing ObamaCare accounts have to be switched to private insurances or closed using some sort of negotiation process.
March 27th, 2017 @ 10:58 pm
Mo Brooks from Alabama has introduced a one sentence Bill declaring Obamacare null & void. Nothing complicated. Hes got my “YES” vote. Put me in coach.
March 28th, 2017 @ 12:49 pm
Well, Stu is on target!
If this was originally began in the Senate, then, the entire law is Un-Constitutional!
Then, all they have to do is refer back to the way health care was done and add/subtract to the original idea and make it superior!
March 28th, 2017 @ 2:19 pm
You folks are awesome! There is a lot of thinking going on. Great comments and ideas. I just saw this from NewsMax. If this is true, then may try again to repeal. I also saw an article mentioned by Rod about the one sentence repeal.
https://www.newsmax.com/JohnGizzi/Obamacare-Healthcare-Ryan/2017/03/28/id/781144/?ns_mail_uid=83817437&ns_mail_job=1721042_03282017&s=al&dkt_nbr=dpjueulc
March 28th, 2017 @ 8:39 pm
I just read this synopsis by a poster on Yahoo news:
My question is: is this really the way
it is all going down?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“even years of complaints saying a plan that took over a year to prepare was supposedly rammed down their throats. Then the republican swamp produces a bill that was written on the back of a matchbook.
Only 17% of Americans like Trumpcare.
Who are these morons that like it? The plan calls for a $600BB tax break to the top 1% – not 17%.
Are there that many lunatics in America? Republicans promised a plan that would cost the government and taxpayers less. He lied.
Republicans promised a plan that would cover more people. He lied.
Republicans promised a plan that would cover pre-existing conditions. He lied.
Republicans promised a plan that would cost consumers less. He lied.
Republicans promised a plan that would cover children 26 and under. He lied.
Republicans promised a plan that would give better coverage. He lied.
Republicans promised a plan that would have lower deductibles. He lied.
Republicans promised a plan that would cost consumers only a fraction of the cost of the ACA. Republicans lied bigly.”
March 29th, 2017 @ 1:27 pm
Hey, Gofy: No! The nation has not fallen!
The old Soviet Union fell!
Not America…as you blindly continue to spike your attitude, to consider that America is done!
No! We are in a revival, due to the scatter-brained and deceitful nwo’s…
Who make it look like all of America has gone down!
Wrong! Your blanket statements are very deceiving…and this Patriot dosen’t appreciate
your flippant statements, coming from a person who moved here, to get away from “over there!”
March 30th, 2017 @ 6:26 pm
Orly,
I believe Freedom Caucus is for a Risk Pool for pre-existing conditions.
America will never be Great Again until we get the Bible and Creation back into our Schools. Check out my website that presents a plan of Volunteer Groups in every County 3,144, learn facts of Creation and fraud of Evolution and attend every School Board Meeting until the Bible and Creation are back in Schools and Government. Our Children are being indoctrinated that is no Creator. All of our Constitution and Declaration of Independence was built on the Bible, …endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights… Our Children are being taught that our Creator does not exist. CreatorisLiberty.com/store for preview of my book “America Come Back”
March 30th, 2017 @ 8:06 pm
Stu is right on target! The good guys fought this battle but if you recall in 09′ the Communists had full control of Congress and the MSM played the mantra of opposing Hussein Care was racist and out of touch with the financially challenged so the Establishment Republicans caved and layer down to it. Here’s the bottom line on where we’re at today in 17′. In o9′ the Dems controlled Congress and Harry Reid had every Democrat in both the House & Senate vote for every piece of legislation Obama wanted and they rubber stamped it. Where is our Harry Reid??? Like Dr. Taitz has said, “we own all branches of Govt., so where is our version of Harry Reid?? With Ryan & McConnell on the Soros payroll, do we really stand a chance of returning the favor?