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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny.
When the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth
becomes a revolutionary act.
 -- George Orwell

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they
fight you, then you win.
 -- Mahatma Gandhi


More on recent murder of senior advisor to the secretary of the airforce (during 3 administrations) John Wheeler

Posted on | January 6, 2011 | 26 Comments

Yesterday I saw a small part of  a program Parker-Spitzer, they interviewed people, who saw Wheeler shortly before he was murdered. I didn’t see the whole program, but here are a few new details, that are troubling.

Apparently, he was on a train from DC back to Wilmington. Something happened on the train or shortly after he got off the train. It was reported that he entered a pharmacy. The pharmacist knew him. he told the pharmacist that his brief case was stolen from him. He looked disoriented. He asked the pharmacist for a ride. the pharmacist told him that he cannot give him a ride, but can call a taxi for him. at that time John Wheeler left.

Another eyewitness was interviewed, she stated that Wheeler was trying to find his car. He talked to the parking attendant and  stated that he can’t find his car, he said that he is not drunk, even though he looked disoriented, there was no smell of alcohol,  his car was later found in a parking structure several blocks from that spot.

several eyewitnesses reported that he looked uncharacteristically disoriented and he had only one show on.

Wheeler was a very accomplished individual, he was a graduate of Harvard school of business and Yale law school, advisor to the secretary of the air force in 3 administrations,  recently he worked in the area of bio and chemical warfare, as well as cyber warfare. He had the highest clearance.

What happened to Wheeler?

Here are some thoughts. Why did he asked the pharmacist for a ride in his private car, but didn’t want the pharmacist to call a cab? What can be the reason? In my opinion the reason can be in the fact that the cab drivers stay in touch with the dispatcher and can be traced. What did this mean? Who has the ability to tap into the conversations of the taxi dispatchers?  I would say intelligence agencies: US and other. 

He said that his brief case was stolen. What was in that briefcase? Probably the documents relating to one of his latest meetings. Who did he meet in DC on that day? What was discussed? What was in that briefcase, that was so important to kill Wheeler? How, where and when was he attacked, so as a result of this attack he became disoriented, lost his briefcase and one shoe. He was on the train. There are security cameras on trains and train stations. Wheeler’s family knows how his brief case looked like. We can see a footage from the security cameras of a person getting of the train with this suitcase. We can trace the footage and see this person getting on the train somewhere. If this person did not have a brief case, when he got on the train and he had a brief case, that looked like Wheeler’s while he got of the train, than chances are, this is our guy. Unless of course, he dumped it somewhere on the train, than the brief case would be found on the train.

Now, another question: why was he missing a shoe? Just one shoe? There can be a tracking device in the shoe.  If a person didn’t want Whheeler’s body to be ID- ed and traced, he would remove both shoes. Why one? Did he know that the device was in this shoe? Was he the person who placed the device? Who removed this one shoe? Wheeler or the perpetrator?     If indeed there was a tracking device, who was responsible for placing such device? Was it an agency? Which agency?

another question, why was it a one two punch? It looks like there were two attacks:

1. when something was used to render Wheeler unconscious

 2. when he was killed and thrown in the trash bin

If someone wanted to get rid of Wheeler because of what he knew and evidence that he had, why not do it in one punch, why 2? Did something spooked the perpetrator? Did the agent malfunction?
Was there another reason?

What else do we know? A number of unexplained events: recently there were

1. reports of “horrific explosions” in TN munition facility 

2. thousands of birds and fish were found dead close to Pine Bluff chemical stockpile facility in AR, which is managed by Carlyle group

3. Wheeler was a personal friend of Air Force LT General Tom McInerney, who was originally scheduled to testify on behalf of of LTC Lakin against the fraud sitting  in the White House. McInerney was forbidden to testify (as well as general Paul Vallely and former UN ambassador Alan Keyes). Judge Lind has forbidden any evidence of Obama’s presidential illegitimacy and Lakinwas sent to prison. It is suffice to imagine, that veteran   Wheeler was not happy about all of the above. Please read the article below and think about one fact: if  you do not stand up against this Praetorian guard, each and every one of you is vulnerable. 

Here is some info from a web site “Nesara now”

I don’t necessarily agree with each and every premise and allegation in this article, but it gives you an idea in relation to massive breach of Bretton Woods GATT agreements, some glimpse into MITRE and Carlisle corporations dealings and documents which could have been in John Wheeler’s brief case.

Snip: In July 1944, during World War II, economist John Maynard Keynes of England, and Harry Dexter White of the United States, organized the United Nation’s Monetary and Financial Conference (or Bretton Woods Conference) in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, to lay out a plan for stabilizing the world economy. The General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade was signed; and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (World Bank) and International Monetary Fund were established.
In the early 1960s, the American economy began declining, and the international situation became unbalanced again. On August 15, 1971, President Nixon announced a new economic policy. The dollar was devalued, and its convertibility to gold was suspended. He initiated a 90-day wage price freeze, stimulative
tax and spending cuts, and placed a temporary 10% tariff on most U.S. imports. Japan and Western Europe were pressured into relaxing their trade barriers, in order to give the United States more access to them; and Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Taiwan were requested to decrease the flow of goods and textiles into the country. These moves offered relief to the country’s economic woes, but was an indication that Nixon was retreating from the global policies which were formulated during the 1960s.
Note: This brought about another “Treaty international agreements other than treaties” which gave ‘access’ to the US Banking System and Vice Versa for those ‘subscribing nations.’ This allowed for the old game of “Which SHELL has the PEA hidden beneath it?” In the the past this was called A SHELL GAME.
I
What BANK could cause a Nation to be threatened “to be bombed back to the stone age?”
———————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Another Investigator Writes: Re: #4: THE REASON FOR “CONTRACTS” ON 127 HEADS
It appears that Mr. E.J. EKKER and his ground crew are indeed on the ground, all hiding under their seperate beds.
OK, so now we have found that the Executive Vice-President of Global Alliance Investment Association (GAIA) who has been one of the main right hand men of this E.J. EKKER is also a STRAW-MAN having his name listed ” as President ” for over 50 companies all registered in the State of Nevada, while I found five ()5) more additional registration that He was also listed as the President, so we now have Number 51) The name of the corproation is INCFAST NEVADA, INC> registered 4/10/2002 and ID NUMBER is C8902-2002 and it was REVOKED on 5/1/2005 = dead horse. And No 52) is HUNTCON INTERNATIONAL, INC> registered on 7/2/2001 ID Number is C 17559-2001 and it was ALSO REVOKED on 8/1/2005 = another dead horse. No 53) is FETTEROLF INDUSTRIES CO> Registered 12/4/1995 and ID Registration is C 21263-1995 and it WAS REVOKED on 1/1/2005= dead horse. and No 54) is CREATIVE SOURCE ENTERPRISES, INC> registered on 4/12/2002 and ID Number is C 9137-2002 and it WAS REVOKED on 5/1/2005 = another dead horse. And No-55) is BARRIER VELOCITY, INC> registered 3/2/2004 and ID Registration number is C 5141-2004 and listed as DEFAULT on 4/1/2007 and the Stable Manager is still dead drunk and asleep so I will wait until He wakes up to ask him if Companies athat are declated by the Secretary of the State of Nevada as ” default ” a dead horses as compared to the State of Nevada having listed a corporation as ” was REVOKED “?
OK, so now Ron KIRZINGER is connected with these 55-different registrations listing himself as the President for fifty-five different State of Nevada Corporations, plus He was also a co-director for that COSMOS SEAFOOD ENERGY MARKETING Corporation also registered in that State of Nevada. Now this is the infamous COSMOS that is said to have been a valid corporation registered and owned by Russell Herman back around 1985, so I did a search for this name at the State of Nevada website at https://esos.state.nv.us/SoSServices/AnonymousAccess/CorpSearch/corpActio. source: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=191118
Probably, those years of Russell Herman and John Wheeler III working together.. sort of ‘jogged’ a brain cell or two when John Wheeler III.. then ‘recall set in’ as Mr. Wheeler put the pieces to gether and “Connected the Dots”.. then.. probably.. John Wheeler III.. Read http://www.theantechamber.net/V_K_Durham/VkPublicNotice.htmlalong with other documents which had been made available on the internet for serious DOT CONNECTING.. which would have included this:
STATUTORY INSTRUMENT 1997 No. 1778
The Social Security (United States of America) Order 1997
© Crown Copyright 1997
(MIRROR) http://www.theantechamber.net/Mirror/StatutoryInstrument1997.html
Which would have blown the hell out of this Department of Health and Human Services aka Social Security Operation hidden under the “umbrella” of The MITRE Corporation.. along with others which operated with Diplomatic Immunity Privileges.. operating under a DO NOT INVESTIGATE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES “MEMO” from the Department of Justice, Deputy AG.. Jamie Gorelick.. which GORELICK MEMO + SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL
can be read http://www.theantechamber.net/UsHistDoc/Gorelick/GmPsIndex.htm
Mr. Wheeler.. probably re-listened to those tape recordings made available to Elliot Spitzer, Patrick Fitzgerald, ONI, FBI, and bankers around the world then read what happened to Mr. and Mrs Ekker: Acording to the TAPE RECORDINGS (set of 2 copied front and back) made by Commander Hatonn aka Doris J. [Eloise] Ekker which were posted to be further recorded by (a) Interpol, (b) Patrick Fitzgerald, D.O.J., (c) FBI, (d) Office of Naval Intelligence, (e) Victim Banking and etc., wherein Doris J Ekker also known as COMMANDER HATONN stated the Sultan of Brunei backed the “FABRICATION” of Instruments on
Bonus Certificate 3392-181 with 20% of his nations wealth for the ASEAN pronounced “Asewan” not to be confused with the Asian.. which further involved the GAIA-Ekkers setting up operations using IDENTITY THEFT of U.S. Corporations and Treaty international agreements other than treaties Section 12087 Corporations see E.J. Ekkers quote: Inter-American Development Bank just set up a little nice banks all around, you know, the little Asian Development Bank, European Development Bank, Hong Kong Development Bank, po-dunk Development Bank, and ever so many more. This sprang out of Inter American Investment Corporation MINE originally set up by the Bush’s but never through Incorporation OOPS, BIG GOOF!! This was also pretty inclusive of the DEPOSIT TRUST [Depository Trust Co. 55 Water Street, New York, New York] outfit who runs all the stocks, etc. [end quote] Which brings about the issue of E.J. Ekker’s throat being cut, and the probable cause. see: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=158479
Then.. in all probability.. Mr. Wheeler reviewed The Chain of Title of the Actual Owners of the “Sovereign Indebtedness” instruments at http://www.theantechamber.net/Vk2009/DocumentationValidation.htm along with checking the “Certification Date, Recording Date of Filing of Public Record, Date Filed in Corporate Records.. against the “2004 incorporation of the 1875 Financial House of the Financial Agents of Peru
by JP Morgan”.. whereupon he probably said: “Holy Shit!” after realizing it is the Certification and Prior RECORDING DATEs which ‘shoots’ JP MORGAN Banking in the foot.
It is believed; It can be safely said: John Wheeler III was one upset individual when he recognized the parallel of HUGHES TOOL AND DYE UMBRELLA OF CORPORATIONS and The MITRE Corporation..
Further; John Wheeler III.. probably discovered The MITRE Corporation had been “compromised”. Further discovering this alleged ‘non profit corporation’ was acting as an “Umbrella” [U.S. House Oversight Committee, Howard Hughes “Tool and Dye” Umbrella Corp.] due to the following:
“The Mitre Corporation website states: “The MITRE Corporation is a not-for-profit organization chartered to work in the public interest. As a national resource, we apply our expertise in systems engineering, information technology, operational concepts, and enterprise modernization to address our sponsors’ critical needs. MITRE manages Federally Funded Research and Development Centers (FFRDCs): one for the Department of Defense (known as the DoD Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence FFRDC), one for the Federal Aviation Administration (the Center for Advanced Aviation System Development), one for the Internal Revenue Service and U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (the Center for Enterprise Modernization), and one for the Department of Homeland Security (the Homeland Security Systems Engineering and Development Institute). MITRE also has its own independent research and development program that explores new technologies and new uses of technologies to solve our sponsors’ problems in the near-term and in the future”.
What did Wheeler know in his special positions that would have gotten him killed? We have just verified that the Carlyle Group (Bush Seniors boys) has a facility contract for the Pine Bluff Arsenal storage, which contains chemical warfare materials,
Wheeler, who lived in New Castle, was chairman of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund during the Ronald Reagan era. He also held many sensitive high-profile government positions after graduating from West Point in 1966.
Mr. Wheeler throughout his career was on assignment with the Secretary of Defense and was so highly thought of he received a special citation for exceptionally meritorious service to the United States as the Special Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force, the Pentagon, Washington, D.C. From 3 November 2005 to 20 June 2008.
In 2008, Mr. Wheeler was the Special Assistant to the Acting Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Installations, Logistics and Energy. In 2009, Mr. John Wheeler was asked to be a “Consultant” to the Mitre Corporation.
Mitre Corporation has four (4) major areas of significance within the confines of the Federal Government including the Department of Defense, Homeland Security, the Central Intelligence Agency and National Security Agency. Those areas of influence are: Aviation System Development, Defense and Intelligence, and Homeland Security. Mitre Corporation employs 7000, 65% of whom have Masters or PH.D., many of whom are full time scientists.
The Mitre Corporation website states: “The MITRE Corporation is a not-for-profit organization chartered to work in the public interest. As a national resource, we apply our expertise in systems engineering, information technology, operational concepts, and enterprise modernization to address our sponsors’ critical needs. MITRE manages Federally Funded Research and Development Centers (FFRDCs): one for the Department of Defense (known as the DoD Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence FFRDC), one for the Federal Aviation Administration (the Center for Advanced Aviation System Development), one for the Internal Revenue Service and U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (the Center for Enterprise Modernization), and one for the Department of Homeland Security (the Homeland Security Systems Engineering and Development Institute). MITRE also has its own independent research and development program that explores new technologies and new uses of technologies to solve our sponsors’ problems in the near-term and in the future”.
1. What did Wheeler know in his special positions that would have gotten him killed? We have just verified that the Carlyle Group (Bush Seniors boys) has a facility contract for the Pine Bluff Arsenal storage, which contains chemical warfare materials, whose mishandling may have caused the death of 5000 birds and 100,000 fish?
2. What is the connection between Wheeler, Mitre Corporation, Department of Defense and the Carlyle Group?
3. What information did Wheeler, a highly credentialed chemical weapons expert, have on the Pine Bluff Arsenal, and the environmental catastrophe? Did Wheeler have information he was about to reveal and was silenced?
White Hat Report #7 – Murder, Resignations and Judgment Day
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=192072
snip: OBAMA’S JUDGEMENT DAY IN SUPREME COURT?
The Obama “Undocumented Worker” question (missing (hidden) long-form birth certificate) is on the Supreme Court’s docket for Conference on January 7th. The background of this case, in short, is this: About 18 months ago, at a college appearance of the Chief Justice, Dr. Orly Taitz confronted John Roberts with a suitcase of 350,000 signatures from World Net Daily and other data, asking the Supreme Court to hear the complaints about Obama’s legitimacy, since he was not vetted. Roberts promised her publicly that he would review the information.
It appears that Roberts kept his promise and the info is going before all 9 Justices on January 7th. All of the previous cases have been denied for lack of ‘Standing’ or being frivolous. Without the Court’s intervention, Obama and the Gangster’s will run by Administrative fiat; as a Dictator with the Congress being but a gnat buzzing around his head. The Court can remove his ‘head’ (Authority) and the rule of law can be restored. Everyone must send letters or telephone call the Supreme Court to encourage the Chief Justice to be pro-active in forcing Obama to produce his long-form birth certificate and answer other Interrogatories. The address for Chief Justice Roberts is as follows:
Chief Justice John Roberts
Supreme Court of the United States
One First Street N.E.
Washington, D.C. 20543
General Inquiry: 202-479-3000 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              202-479-3000      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Clerks Office: 202-479-3011 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              202-479-3011      end_of_the_skype_highlighting

Comments

26 Responses to “More on recent murder of senior advisor to the secretary of the airforce (during 3 administrations) John Wheeler”

  1. Elliot
    January 6th, 2011 @ 10:18 am

    The NESARA Now website?
    Oy vey!
    Please look up “NESARA” on Wikipedia.

  2. karen
    January 6th, 2011 @ 10:23 am

    Dr Orly I found this on Dr Kates blog and I think maybe you are the only attorney who can help this lady and maybe you even met her at the trial.

    Urgent!!!!

    Dr Kate a woman from the Lakin trial has been arrested today for asking about Obama eligiblity. Theresa, the pretty asian lady in the front row was hauled out of congress today.

    Can you help us get her a lawyer and get a group to protest this?

  3. Paul Jackson
    January 6th, 2011 @ 10:24 am

    Wow!!! Dr. Orly. That is amazing!!!

    I read teh story of the murder but had NO IDEA!! the background went that deep.

    You are an amazing investigator.

    Sooner or later teh truth WILL COME OUT!!! KEEP THE PRESSURE ON!

    God Bless

  4. Kathy M
    January 6th, 2011 @ 11:39 am

    I have asked someone who knows a lot more scientific information that I do about the birds and fish that are being killed. Yesterday, some birds were reported killed overseas also. The answer that I received was that this was a possibility of microwave technology weapons testing. I asked further, how could the birds be killed, but not the people on the ground? The answer was that it was a low enough dosage that most likely dissipated before it did any damage on the ground below, unless they tested over a lake. Microwave technology has been around for many years, just never used as a weapon before. (I think)

    This is pure speculation of course, just raises additional questions. Like, trains are a public mass transit, where are the witnesses from the train? Following closely, stay safe and God Bless

  5. Ro
    January 6th, 2011 @ 1:16 pm

    This could be “the shot”. Anybody in DC should find out what police station Dr. Kate was taken to and get the phone numbers. Millions of us need to call there!!

  6. Ro
    January 6th, 2011 @ 1:18 pm

    What is Dr. Kates website. I can’t seem to connect.

  7. dr_taitz@yahoo.com
    January 6th, 2011 @ 1:27 pm

    Am I missing something? I thought that Theresa was arrested. Was it Dr. Kate? John Hemenway is a DC attorney. e-mail Ducly, Margaret Hemenway, so that her father in law can get Dr. Kate out of prison. What is the charge?

  8. karen
    January 6th, 2011 @ 1:34 pm

    No I saw the post about Theresa at Dr Kates. Sorry if I wrote it wrong. I just thought with you doing the Supreme court stuff tomorow you could check up on Theresa Cow. Also when you are their at Supreme court could you stop by Boehners office? He said today that Obama is borm in Hawaii and someone needs to set him straight.

  9. dr_taitz@yahoo.com
    January 6th, 2011 @ 2:32 pm

    Karen
    you sound like an obot instigating trouble. I explained to you repeatedly that tomorrow is a meeting of 9 justices behind close doors. If they decide to allow argument on the merits, only than I will be able to bring argument to the Supreme Court

  10. GreatGrey
    January 6th, 2011 @ 3:25 pm

    Dr Esq Orly wrote:
    “Am I missing something?”

    Magic 8 Balls says, “Definitely Yes!”

  11. will
    January 6th, 2011 @ 3:36 pm

    orly.. NINE JUSTICES? since when.. these idiots hold titles and thats it.. i doubt if they have the balls to give you the right to the information.. heck you already have 2 of them against you… should they participate or should they recuse themselves cause they have a lots to lose should you prove your case..

    ITS TIME TO ACT.. corner these idiots who are involved and make them talk
    will

  12. PorkRoll
    January 6th, 2011 @ 3:52 pm

    It’s Theresa Cao, BTW. She had a write-up on WND here:
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=132593
    She’s a devout Christian and patriot.

  13. ch
    January 6th, 2011 @ 5:12 pm

    This is a tragedy regarding Wheeler. One other possibility is he was mugged and thought dead, thrown into a dumpster, and in lifting him, one shoe came off. It is probably a dumpster very near the Pharmacy, so he woke up, disoriented, crawled out of the dumpster, and staggered into the Pharmacy he recognized and felt safe and then felt safe with the Pharmacist he knew. He was not completely disoriented, as he knew his briefcase had been stolen. He knew he was in danger. He knew he could not take a taxi, so left the pharmacy to look for possible help at another store where he might have frequented and known people, and was found murdered. The dumpsters near the pharmacy are probably where he was first left and last left. The shoe has gone to the dump, and might be found, but his fingerprints would be on the dumpster, in an effort to crawl out. May God rest his soul, and vindicate him, as only God knows how. Why somebody would carry important information in a briefcase, while traveling alone, is beyond me and questionable; hopefully, they will find only benign correspondence, and a few pens. Surely he had enough experience to not carry high level information in a vulnerable briefcase while traveling alone. God save America.

  14. Ro
    January 6th, 2011 @ 6:45 pm

    Karen, I went to Dr. Kates Website. I did not see anything that even remotely implied that she was the one who was arrested in Chambers today. Where did you get your information from?
    It was not from Dr. Kates website.

  15. Ro
    January 6th, 2011 @ 6:55 pm

    Geraldo at Large. Wow. Just reported he will do report on Wheeler on Saturday.

  16. Phil
    January 7th, 2011 @ 2:28 am

    Orly:…Don’t worry about Wiki, as I understand that Soros has supplied them with a “bankroll” now and then! But…whatever it says…

    We both discussed [Nesara] last year! If only I can “dream dreams,” huh? Let’s hope!

    And the “magic-mouth,” “8-ball, sophisticator” doesn’t say what he’s “missing”? Maybe a few “bricks” shy of a full load??? He’s just another “faux” Ph.D., that’s “Piled high & Deep!”

    Davey Crockett…

  17. Mick Sane
    January 7th, 2011 @ 3:26 am

    > these idiots hold titles and thats it

    Yes, these constitutional experts have it all wrong and you have it all right. Do you also tell your surgeon how to operate you because you know better?

    > a woman from the Lakin trial has been arrested today for asking about Obama eligiblity

    No, she was arrested for disrupting a Congress meeting. It doesn’t matter if what she shouted was “Except Obama!” or “Free the Pink-Tailed Unicorns!”. Same treatment.

  18. Kathy M
    January 7th, 2011 @ 4:16 am

    Getting back to the topic at hand, I have further looked into MITRE corp. Another interesting fact, they are doing/working on Nanotechnology, better know as nanobots. Too many sensitive areas for this company, such as “brain mapping”, nanobots, computer technology, electromagnets, chemical, bio-weapons and everything else in between. You name the advance technology and this company appears to be working on it.

    The MITRE corp reads like an elite “who’s who” of the research corporations, yet claims to be “non-profit”. It maintains/boasts of getting the best and the brightest. It partners with too many US Government agencies, like, IRS, Treasury, Homeland Security and down through the list. It takes money to attract the best and brightest of these fields, it would be my wild guess that the MIRTE corp is a Government facility at best.

    As a side note, Glenn Beck has been reported as having many health issues and even thought he was going blind. The theory has been put forth that he has nanobots working against him.
    This is only a theory of course.

    Lastly, in the carpenter world as handymen everywhere know, the term mirte means a precise corner cut. To cut on a angle. Perhaps a government think tank cutting out the “middle man”?

  19. Phil
    January 7th, 2011 @ 6:48 am

    And, yes, Orly:…Wow! Now I understand what happened to those “B.C. Petitions,” that WND had asked everyone to sign!

    Incredible! And I also understand why you couldn’t say anything!

    I hope WND “reimbursed you” for your time and expenses on that?

    Very good, “Agent Scully!” LOL!

    And you did a great job of research of all that info! Truly remarkable!

    Prayers are with you today, Orly!

    Davey Crockett…

  20. dr_taitz@yahoo.com
    January 7th, 2011 @ 7:36 am

    or they are cutting the heart of the nation
    We need to send FOIA requests in regards to some info, maybe that will prompt some movement. Clearly they don’t want thousands of citizens poking around with thousands of fOIA requests. Maybe as a deal making they will release the usurpers docs, so we’ll live them alone? At the end of the day it is always in give and take

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